PR Pro Pop Culture Check-in

It’s time to check in on the latest in pop culture and PR. From recent missteps from the rock and roll world to shows trying to return to air during the WGA and SAG/AFTRA strikes, we talk about it.

 

Transcript

Michelle Kane (00:02):

Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and marketers who work for themselves, people like me, Michelle Kane with VoiceMatters, and Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Hello, Karen. It's another week and here we are.

Karen Swim, APR (00:20):

Hi Michelle. We made it. We made it. It's been a week.

Michelle Kane (00:25):

Oh, it's been a week. And it hasn't even been a week already.

Karen Swim, APR (00:30):

So true.

Michelle Kane (00:31):

But our week is nothing like the weeks of some people out there in pop culture land. So we're just going to touch on that a little bit. I'm sure if any of you are following any of the hot topics right now with the Writers’ Strike, the Actors’ Strike. We know Drew Barrymore had some issues with that. We've got some stuff out of Florida, and Jan Winter stepped in it too with Rolling, rolling Stone in the Rock and Roll Hall. And not that we're saying this to just disown people, but there are some very instructive PR moments that some of these aforementioned people received well and acted upon and others have not. But that's okay. It's just like us and clients. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't.

Karen Swim, APR (01:21):

100%. And I actually, I love our pop culture PR segments because they're always fun and they're a nice break from a lot of the other things that all of us have to deal within our day-to-day. So yes.

Michelle Kane (01:35):

Yeah. Yes. Let's get into it. So Drew, I love Drew. I know she means, well, I think she most certainly was thinking of those members of her crew and those people affected by the strike and being off the job and what that is starting to mean financially for so many people that she announced. She made the decision to come back to work that was met with pretty significant backlash, which in turn, she then rescinded and is not going back. And I know we were talking off air about, I had seen Rosie O'Donnell posted something that was very instructive for Drew. In fact, Rosie, if you're looking to make a foray into pr, you nailed it. She just laid out three things, a apologize, B, change your mind and see, just state it like this and you'll be fine.

Karen Swim, APR (02:36):

I love Drew Barrymore as well. And I think that her misstep, of course, the first thing that was asked is who's advising her? People automatically assume that there was some failure on the part of advisors, but then other smart people asked. The question was, did she listen to counsel? My guess is that obviously she does have really good PR people that are on her team. My guess is that they truly did advise her, but that she led with her will and her heart. And I do believe that she was well intentioned, but very misinformed. So here's a thing that stood out to me. Number one, here's somebody who is an industry veteran. She grew up in this industry. That, however, is not always apparently an indication that you really understand the industry that you've been in for a long time. So she's been in it for a long time.

She's made a lot of money in the industry. She definitely is one of the privileged that is not feeling the strike in the same way, however, because she has a good heart. She wanted to do something good, but she missed the mark on this one and she forgot her audience. I don't want to spend people's money. But there's all kinds of ways that you can help people that work for you without affecting the wider industry and the issues and thinking about how this is going to play to the average American, many of whom are in her audience are also in labor unions, have family members in labor unions or are being impacted by workplace issues. So it was a great misstep. And so the lesson to leaders is just because you think something is right, and just because you're operating off of good intentions, it's really smart to have strategic counsel that will tell you the truth and to look beyond yourself and your perceptions and truly understand the impact on the audience.

(04:50):

And when you're a brand of that size, your impact on the larger marketplace. I have friends that have been on the picket lines. I have friends that are not multimillionaires who are being affected by these strikes. I have friends that are actors and friends that are writers. It is disheartening to see somebody show up for a smaller group of people because you want to feel good about it and you want to put a statement out saying, I own this choice. Okay, are you owning the big mistake that this is too? It was a slap in the case to all of those people that don't have Drew Barrymore as their boss, which is the majority of people.

Michelle Kane (05:30):

Right. So true. So true. And it definitely went against the whole purpose of a strike. And to your point, you're asking audience members to cross a picket line. And so there was a subset snafu with all of this where there were two audience members who the picketers gave them pins. They wore the pins, they were kicked out of the audience. So it's also a message to someone in her, or maybe you're not a talk show host. Maybe you're a c e O of a company. Yeah, you keep the 30,000 foot view, but you better keep your ear to the ground too so that your staff knows not to do that because Hello Drew, you're in the SAG after union.

Karen Swim, APR (06:16):

That's unfortunate, but has she been out on the picket line routinely? Has she been talking to people who are losing their livelihood, who cannot pay their rent, who cannot make their mortgage payments? Apparently not.

Because you can't hear these stories, you can't know these people. You can't walk in their shoes and make the decision that was made. And we've also seen the ripple effect, and this happens with companies that we work with too. One company does something and everybody follows suit bad or good.

We're seeing it right now in this whole return to office. One company finally pulls the plug and says, you've got to come back. And then we see a ripple where other companies follow suit because no one often wants to be first. And we know in business that it's all copycat. That's why they all talk in this stupid business jargon language, which is another part of our segment today. So now that she has pulled back and they are not taping the show, then other talk shows also announce that they also will be delaying their seasons. Correct. Is this painful? Yes, but that's a whole point of a strike, whether you're pro-union or not. I think that we're all people earning a decent living,

(07:42):

And that's all that these, they're not fighting to become billionaires. That's not what the fight is about. They want to have health insurance. They want to be able to have entry level positions. When it comes to actors, they want extras. Extra is often, it's almost like an internship into the business. They don't get paid a lot, but they get to learn on the job, they get to network, they get to be around, they learn the language of a set and how production goes. And one of the things that the studios wanted to do is to take extras in that background stuff and be able to AI it into 50,000 different other scenes movies. So imagine this, you go, you get paid a hundred bucks for your full day of work, and now somebody wants you to sign over the rights to that day of work for eternity so they can just drop you into other things. Yes, technology is here, but I am not a fan personally of technology, completely erasing humanity. I believe that the best use of technology helps us to do our jobs better. It works for us. It's not competing with us.

Michelle Kane (09:02):

I mean, that's just wholly unethical.

Karen Swim, APR (09:06):

I believe it is too. And so I've heard a lot of people just, they don't understand. They don't know what's going on with these strikes. And they really have this viewpoint that people in Hollywood all make so much money. And when I shared with people some of the residual checks that people make or some of the money that they make given year, they were shocked that it was less than they make at their, what they consider to be a regular job. We're not talking about tech executives. We're not talking about C-suite people. We're talking about people that just go to work every day. They have a job, they make a decent living. They were shocked to learn that people in this industry often make far less than they do. And it's because in every industry, you always have somebody on the bottom, somebody in the middle, and somebody at the top. Every industry that doesn't go away just because of the type of industry.

Michelle Kane (10:03):

And I think it speaks to a wider mentality, and I'm going to presume it's probably mostly an American thing. You always hear the pushback of, oh, they want this kind of raise. Why should they get that? It's like, do you understand? If they do that, it will eventually benefit you? This is not a competition. You are not meant to be jealous. Oh, so you want to be paid less, is that what you're saying? Pay me less. It's not a contest. We only have, look unions a lot of good, a lot of not so great, but we have weekends because of unions. We have, well, in most states right now, some states are bringing back child labor. We don't have child labor because of union. So them asking for what the value of their work is bringing these companies don't act like just because it's not an opportunity for you today. Oh, they're being greedy. Just shut up and go to work. It's like, really? Do you really want to be a surf? I don't.

Karen Swim, APR (11:09):

And it is a little shortsighted to actually be a member of a union that's on strike and make the decision that Drew Barrymore made. That's a more telling issue because people that don't agree with the unions and would love to see them go away, they don't like the collective bargaining. They want every individual to bargain for themselves. Nothing wrong with that point of view. It really isn't. So we're not here to say pro or anti-union or whatever. We're here to say that when you are running a business, you really need to take into account who you're speaking to and the impact of your decisions. And you have to rely on more than your own perception or your intentions. It just gets you into trouble every time. And this time it really got her into trouble. I think that she'll recover from it.

Michelle Kane (12:05):

Yes. I believe that

Karen Swim, APR (12:07):

She, over time has actually built a lot of goodwill. So I do think that she will recover, but it was just unfortunate that it had to take this turn. And we know that on a smaller basis, we probably have seen this with clients as well.

Michelle Kane (12:23):

Oh, definitely, definitely. And to be fair, same thing has happened with Bill Maher. He decided to come back Now, of course said no. And I think it was also what the talk and the Jennifer Hudson show, they were making similar decisions into which even if you're a talk show, it's like, well, who do you think is going to be your guest? But speaking of shortsightedness and not really having much of a clue, let's move on to the new president of the University of Florida, former Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse.

Karen Swim, APR (13:06):

We're looking at this purely from a PR lens. So, University of Florida, which is one of the top schools in the nation, and their model has been fantastic, has a new president, and his name is Ben Sasse, and he's a business guy. Nothing wrong with I get it. You bring somebody into a different industry because they have a different way of solving problems, a different perspective. I have no issues with that choice from a PR perspective. One thing that jumped out at us is that Ben Sasse has done some interviews and he is a businessperson, and he makes the mistake that so many PR professionals will instantly recognize. How many of you have clients that you have set up interviews with and you're trying, you have media trained them for thought leadership, and they cannot get out of their own way and speak like a human being. They just cannot speak like a person.

(14:10):

We have to tell you, we were working with a client and we had a partner, and the partner was a very large, very well-known household name company. And so the interview included our client, a smaller client and this household name company. And the reporter came back to us after the interview and applauded our client and their interview and their input and said basically that the household name company was trash because they could not speak like a human being. They just gave them a bunch of standard company jargon. So if you want to do thought leadership, this is the worst way to do it. It's the worst way, honestly, to communicate with anyone that phrase that you should communicate to be understood, not heard. And unfortunately, some executives, some business people, some regular people feel like they need to sound smart. They need to use all of the inside words.

(15:26):

When you are talking inside of your own companies, you do not need to do this. You do not need to prove that you have the glossary of terms that are used. Sometimes if you're a medical doctor, obviously you need to use technical language in certain positions. You have to use technical language within your job. But it would serve everyone well to learn how to speak a human being. And I want to read you an example of one of his answers. It is so completely, it's like, what does he even saying right now? I don't even know. I'll have to find the quote.

Michelle Kane (16:12):

I believe co-location was one of the words. It was just, I'm like, really? And I wonder because he was previously, he's the former senator from Nebraska. And you have to wonder, is he just not used to speaking things that weren't carefully crafted for him or is now that he's out of that world, he's just again refusing counsel and saying, nah, I'm good. I'll wing it.

Karen Swim, APR (16:42):

He was asked about his perceived invisibility on campus because there's been a lot of stuff on the campus about how he's not seen the previous president. The students don't see him. He's just not visible. And so part of his answer, and this is in quotes, and this is from New York Times magazine, and he says, and that requires us to unbundle cohorting community and synchronicity from co localities. And then he added, what will today's generic term professor mean when you disaggregate syllabus designer, sage on the stage, lecturer, seminar leader, instructional technologist, greater assessor, et cetera. So cohorting community and synchronicity from localities even mean, and what it

Michelle Kane (17:33):

Sounds like it hurts.

Karen Swim, APR (17:35):

Yes. What does that have to do with students saying they never see you on campus? Please do not do this at home, folks.

Michelle Kane (17:48):

Yeah, I mean, my university wasn't anywhere near as large as the University of Florida, but we knew who our president was. We would see him, we would see the provost, we would see them out and about saying, hello. It's a little strange, and maybe I'll give him a little benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's transitioning from being in the hyperbaric chamber of DC or maybe he just isn't, isn't really for…

Karen Swim, APR (18:22):

And I feel like this, feeling like they're so accustomed to speaking in this inside baseball language and it's a language of the privileged they feel as if they have to speak this language so that people know how incredibly brilliant they are. But the people who have an impact and are memorable, are people who know how to speak to you like a person. They don't need to use the big words. And we PR people, we love the dictionary. We love grammar, we love words. We love to bring out old words and use them in different places. But when you are communicating with people, it's so much more important to just be plain spoken and to be memorable. People will remember words that they can hold onto. They're not going to remember that you said unbundle cohort team. I want to even know what does that even mean?

Michelle Kane (19:32):

And honestly, as soon as you said synchronicity, I was already playing songs from the police album in my mind. So you lost me, Ben. But speaking of the police and rock and roll, our number three person who he has literally taken PR in vain is Jan Wener, who has come out with this book called The Masters. And he has truly and purely stepped in it or revealed to anyone who had any wonder of how he really is when he claims, well, I don't know if he was approached as to why are there only white men in your book? And he made some ridiculous claims that, well, I guess I could have interviewed one black person and one woman to be for PR purposes. Okay, that's not PR Jan, but whatever. But they couldn't be articulate. I'm like, I'm sorry, say what? I have three words for you.

(20:28):

Sister Rosetta invented the electric guitar rock and roll riff. If, and I kind of feel for the people that he did interview, I really would love to hear from them as if to say, yeah, I'm in that book, but that's not how I roll. Just incredibly tone deaf. And it really tarnishes the musical journalism reputation of Rolling Stone, even though he was just the editor and the publisher. He wasn't the writer, but all the coverage over the years, you're like, huh, why didn't so-and-so get featured as much? Oh, really? Oh, you don't think Stevie Wonder could talk about his music? Really? Oh, so yeah, he's in our, I don't even like to say doghouse because I love dogs. He's in our PR bad house right now. He

Karen Swim, APR (21:19):

Has been removed from the rock and roll board. Yes, he has from his position. And I think that those were great decisions. And Michelle, I mean, I completely respect you, particularly on so many topics, but you're a music nerd.

Michelle Kane (21:36):

I am.

Karen Swim, APR (21:37):

You are a music nerd. You love music. You know music. You can talk music. And it just hurt my heart to read words that you have one human being who has power, who communicated that there's only a certain subset of people that make music that can actually talk about it in an intelligent manner. This from someone who is not a musician, by the way, he's not a musician.

(22:12):

No. Here again, this goes to me. I mean, this is not a diversity, equity, inclusivity, and belonging issue because he is clearly biased, period. No amount of de I and B training would've helped this man. He really needs a mindset shift. But it is a good example of us understanding companies, organizations, strategic advisors, PR council, understanding the people that we connect to, our brands and our companies, understanding what their perspectives are, not just their intelligence on a particular topic. So I am sure that he achieved his status and position because he developed talents and he had some knowledge about this industry. But did anyone ever look beyond that over the years? Did anyone question why certain people weren't interviewed and why he held certain opinions or wrote certain things? So I think that as communicators, it's important for us to ensure that our clients are not attached to people that could damage their reputations because this rubs off on them. And Michelle, you nailed it. You started to look back and say, now I'm questioning decisions that were made under his leadership, knowing now what I know about this human being. Absolutely. So it can turnage great work.

Michelle Kane (24:00):

And

Karen Swim, APR (24:02):

Not because your organization sucks. I mean, no has had some problematic.

Michelle Kane (24:11):

Problematic, yes. And there's been an undercurrent of thoughts about this person's perspectives, but this just you. I'm like, okay, well thank you for confirming what so many of people have said. I won't repeat what one of my friends posted.

Karen Swim, APR (24:32):

I dunno this man at all. But his comments come across like a hateful, misogynistic, racist. Can I just be honest about it? Exactly.

Michelle Kane (24:40):

Yeah.

Karen Swim, APR (24:41):

So, basically you hate women and any other race.

Michelle Kane (24:44):

Yeah. They're not on the same par as your white male counterparts. And I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the textbook definition. And I'm fairly certain of half the names you dropped that they would highly disagree with you. I don't dunno if David Bowie saying

Karen Swim, APR (25:04):

This out loud.

Michelle Kane (25:06):

Yeah, you're saying the quiet part out loud, which happens oh so often these days. And yeah, along that topic, if anyone's interested, there's that brilliant clip of David Bowie being interviewed on MTV in the early eighties addressing just that and calling them out to their faces. And it's just a beautiful for us nerds who love to see a good interview and how they can go, but

Karen Swim, APR (25:29):

We love it.

Michelle Kane (25:30):

Well, we hope you've enjoyed this time with us. We enjoy just looking at the PR perspective of these things as we dish a little bit. And if you've found this valuable to you, we would love it if you would share it around with your friends and colleagues. Check us out@soloprpro.com. And until next time, thanks for listening to That Solo Life.